Better Democracy: China or US? (3)

Pursuant to our article of last week, we have published yesterday comments from England and Canada. Today's comments: from United States

- First order of business for the 111th Congress By John Patterson

" tear down the electoral college and replace it with the popular vote...If ever the opportunity will exist, it willbe in the first months of the next Congress, after the people have been put through another Electoral Colelge constitutional crisis.

Because, if all the polls are correct, we are mocing headlong into another debacle, where the will of the people is trumped by the pernicious powers of corporate influence.They've bought and paid for our candidates' campaigns now for a long time, and they will demand payback.

Bush v Gore was just the beginning, if we do not eliminate the electoral college, we will never realize the fully evolved Democracy our founders hinted at when they formed this great nation.Democracy is evolving.And the demise of the electoral college and its replacement by the popular vote, will represent one of the most notable and historic hallmarks in that evolution.

Reply By Arius
While we're at it, get rid of the Senate for the same reasons.

- By Arius
At least here the Supreme Court had a choice between a Republican and a Democrat, not a Republican and a Republican.

Reply By Foreign Affairs Consultant
Perhaps, a third party will be an answer.

- By Oklahoma Voter (chang@cableone.net)

"Optical scanning devices with paper ballot are the best way to go. Oklahoma has been using optical scanners since 1992. Historical voting irregularity scandals are what caused Oklahoma to convert to optical scanners years ago.
This is an election, not an auction. A primary, not a slam dunk by media, lobbyists, and Washington insiders.

Addendum:

China is a fascist oligarchy not a democracy. Read the book "Confessions: An Innocent Life in Communist China" by Kang Zhengguo, if you have any illusions.
by OklahomaVoter (chang@cableone.net)

- Reply by The Facilitator

"An extremely limited choice. In theory, you are right.

My point is this: The Communist Party has a choice among 2,200 delegates. Here, only 5 or 6 candidates, who can raise $100 million, have a chance to lead their respective party. So, 200 million people choosing between two candidates already financed by pressure groups, lobbyists, etc.

If none of them is qualified, we still have the freedom to chose the lest incompetent.

- Reply by adbct 16 (gop4ire@att.net,gop4jre

"China imprisons those who it considers to be threat to its authority.....human rights are anm after thought.....elections are decided by the elite not by ordinary citizens....to compare China to the US is absurd......and one last note....the supreme court did not decide the 2000 election....it determined that guessing at the intent of a voter based upon a perforated ballot or hanging chad was not a sufficient or reliable measure to count a vote.

They determined that to do so would be to ignore the votes of millions in favor of a some thousands based upon guessing and conjecture......they were correct. The outcome may not have been desirable, but the decision was correct. Get over it....."

- Reply by The Facilitator

"How about counting all the votes. Did they stop the counting of votes...yes or no?Did we imprison journalists, yes or no. Are we listening to private communications, yes or no?China has an elite, and we have the lobbyists, pressure groups, as elite...and they decide.

Still did not answer my point: 2,200 who can make a difference in China....here, we are limited to 5 or 6 who can raise $100 million. Yes or no? That's the question. It is absurd to keep your head in the sand. Get over it...there is a world moving forward, outside our borders."

- Reply by adbct16

"Did they stp counting votes yes? Why because they could not determien a proper or valid way to count hanging chads and dimpled chads.....which is what the Supreme Court stated was the problem. You cannot accurately determine the intent of a vote based upon such methods......it was absurd.....do we imprison journalists in this country, perhaps if they defy court ordered testimony. Do we put them in gulags and the like for life...uh no....
As for being limited to 5 or 6 or can raise $100 million...whose fault is that...you mean voters dont see the candidates....they dont realize what a fraud hillary is cmon.....get your head out of the sand...

- by carl cimini (carlcimini@yahoo.com, Wobbdlimind Media)

"China has a plan. We continue to follow the plan of madness. Totalitarian China? At this point the lofty goal and dream of an egalitarian society presented by Mao seems to be working.
I remember working in China during the first bush gore election, the look of my Chinese friends was akin to my puppy when it tilts its head, and a question would follow...Do you believe the masquerade? I would respond "It hasn't always been a criminal country; the U.S. for many years was the land of the underdog". The good fight was worth fighting. Today, the dream has died. Let's hope the Dems can revive it. "

The Facilitator

Better Democracy: China or US? (2)

Pursuant to our article of last week, we would like to share with you the following comments.

From United Kingdom

- Why such a system? by elle 13

" Is the American system a 'meritocratic system' or a 'patronage system'?"

- Not unlike an unknown peanut farmer from Georgia. by Cheech

"How does a farmer, a poor farmer with a high school education become the first indigenous president of Bolivia? It's an amazing journey,”

- Not all politicians have a University Degree. Do they in America? by elle

"Cheech, among his people, a high school education may mean he is about the highest educated among them. And in a democracy, all he has to do is win votes. He might have a very high IQ despite his education. Otherwise, people get what they deserve."

- liaison by whatmustafricado

"whenever i mention this, people say im crazy. democracy is really a disgrace to our generation because its the genesis of all modern problems. The system of letting the people elect their leaders isn't prevalent. After potenting the authorities, they tend to ignore the populance and you call this a great achievement in the history of mankind?

Democracy really need to be reformed. I wish the world would listen to my proposed reformation on democracy. The leaders with high educational level tends to be stupid rulers because they think they knows it all and fails it all. These people doesnt know whats really going on in the societies because they spend all their time being educated but those with lower educational background do very much because these people are local people.

I always say, education isn't the key to anything because if is it, why the bigger authorities making things so expensive for us? its only makes one more distincts from others. none of the very rich people in the history were very educated.

All the people i know who spent their lifetime getting educated end up being loosers.we must always also know that, a man is still a man, whether he wears a tie or rag, rich or poor, white or black.

From Canada

- from W L:

"Mainland China went from a land torn by war with wide-spread poverty in 1949 to today's economic superpower not through democracy but dictatorship. The job is not yet done. Still, only 1/3 of the country can be considered "middle class" while the rest 2/3 are poor. Why should China adopt democratic system now?

The same goes for Taiwan & Hong Kong. The KMT ruled Taiwan with an iron fist and the British won't allow Hong Kong residents to choose its next governor. Both islands achieved huge economic booms while under dictatorship. Singapore too.

Since adopting a democratic system in 1996, Taiwan's economy has been in decline. Today, the government is consumed with political infighting, not to mention fist fights in the legislature.

Why does the Chinese want democracy? In its 5000 year history, there has never been an elected emperor in China. Why have one now?Steaks and potatoes may sell pretty well, but it will never replace rice as the staple. "

- from J.P. Sartre

"China has taught us that communism is the best environment for capitalism. Enterprises can be more efficient in China since there is no need to "waste" capital on worker benefits, product safety or saving the environment. The Chinese economy will eventually overtake the US economy as the largest in the world.

Anyway, the US is clearly becoming less and less democratic as the neo-cons advance their pro-capitalism and imperialistic agendas. Perhaps democracy will become obsolete as greed becomes the new "ethic".

Tomorrow, we will add comments from United States

The Facilitator

Better Democracy: China or US

As Winston Churchill said about democracy: "The worst political system yet devised, except for all the others".

Next week in Beijing, 2,200 delegates of the Communist Party will elect the members of the Politburo, a strategic avenue for future leaders of the next greatest power on earth.

Still, 2,195 more than the five judges who selected George W. Bush in 2000. We are paying a heavy price for the poor judgment of those five Supreme (?) deciders.

Still, 2,195 more than the five presidential candidates who can afford to raise $50 million or more to win the nomination for the Republicans and Democrats.

We have 200 million eligible voters (only half of them bother to vote) who must choose between two persons, already selected by lobbyists, fund raisers, pressure groups, etc., and, of course, the media.

We assume that the 2,200 Chinese delegates have a certain intelligence having been selected among hundreds of millions people or having succeeded to get through the numerous channels.

So, one question. Who is having the best democracy? A leader selected among 2,200 intelligent members or 100 million mostly uninformed voters choosing between two billionaire candidates?

Recently, Evo Morales, president of Bolivia, was a guest of Jon Stewart: "Your story is remarkable. How does a farmer, a poor farmer with a high school education become the first indigenous president of Bolivia? It's an amazing journey,” Stewart asked.

“We all have rights, as I understand it,” said Morales, an Aymara Indian. “Professionals and intellectuals are not the only ones who can be presidents,” he said. “Indigenous people can also be president.”

“In Bolivia,” Stewart deadpanned, leaning forward conspiratorially. “In America, it's a little rigged.”

That's real democracy. Perhaps, we should stop promoting democracy abroad, and start learning how to count votes, at home. The real world does not listen to us, anymore. And our elected representatives do not listen to the majority, but prefer to please the few.

It is more than time to stop wasting hundreds of million dollars to promote democracy in Cuba, as an example, especially when the funds of taxpayers are wasted in childish propaganda, for the exclusive benefits of 1/3 of 1% of the population. We are paying a heavy price ($700 billion, so far), for such irresponsible electoral influence, under the supervision of the other Bush.

The Facilitator

We are losing precious time (2)

As we have seen last week, it is time to concentrate on something else than terrorism, war, boycotting, and insulting other countries.

The Real World has also noticed how poorly we can manage a natural disaster (Katrina), and the various problems facing certain industries: airlines, housing, health-care, automobiles, border with Mexico, school system, etc. etc.

The high price of energy is affecting the airline and trucking industries. Our employment figures do not meet the required criteria, and we are facing a serious recession. In the last five years, the cost of jet-fuel and diesel-fuel has more than double., affecting the earnings of all involved companies.

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a Paris-based group of 30 industrial nations, issued a report warning that the credit crisis had dimmed prospects for economic growth, especially in the United States.

But our great genius representatives in Senate and Congress prefer to lose their time in boycotting certain ads, and showing the rest of the world, that freedom of thoughts are in danger in a democracy, that still did not learn how to count votes.

Our elected officials still do not realize that the value of our American Brand is vanishing (see our article, August 30). Worse, an increasing number of countries, companies, institutions, are starting to distance themselves from American entities, labels, partnerships, relationship, etc.

Last week, shareholders of Daimler were eager to welcome the move to unwind the name Chrysler. The renamed Daimler-AG will also call its passenger car business: Mercedes-Benz-Cars, in honour of Carl Friedrich Benz.

Understand that it makes sense to withdraw the name Chrysler, after the sale of the said disastrous division, and a loss of $29 billion for a venture in United States. But we must notice how fast the shareholders decided to drop a US link. Combined with the out performance of Toyota and Honda, it shows that Detroit does not know how to manufacture automobiles, anymore.

It also shows our lack of clairvoyance and incompetence by not forcing the previous Big Three to produce better cars, and increase their mileage per gallon. It also demonstrates the irresponsibility of Congress to listen to lobbyists, who, by the way, have been working against their own interest. Unfortunately, because of spineless elected officials, our auto industry and our own economy is paying the price today, and for more than a generation to come.

Alarming that we do not realize it....while the real world knows it, for quite a while. Let’s show that we are serious. Let’s start with a few examples (Fannie Mae, for reasons explained last week). More than time to clean our House, and fire those who have no ethics, no moral, no competence.

If we want to restore our credibility and prestige, we must start by choosing competence, ethics and talents, over political nominations and sycophants.

New York Times

We are pleased to notice that today's editorial of New York Times, "American Dream in Reverse", does not include Fannie Mae as part of the solution, as the editor was suggesting, a few weeks ago.

We agree with one of the comments: "what is missing is executive leadership to bring together many players, including lenders, servicers, bankers and various investors. All of them are affected differently".

As reported, we have 700,000 fewer homeowners than six years ago, and we might reach one million by 2009, in spite of an increase in population, thanks to irresponsible Senate, Congress and White House.

However, we do not believe in Government assistance to speculators and foolish developers, nor to those who were buying upper-class houses with a clerk salary. Financial help should be restricted to those who have a steady employment, and can demonstrate a recovery with a sound financial budget, under supervision.

Notion of savings and sound family budget should be encouraged and installed. If not, we are just throwing away more money on citizens who will never learn (and are not interested) to get back on their feet. Perhaps, their children will understand the importance of savings, the importance of wise spending.

As we can see, we have so much work to do at home......if only to catch up with the Real World. No more time to lose by creating enemies abroad, and dictating other countries.

The Facilitator.

We are losing precious time (1)

It is time to concentrate on something else than terrorism, war, boycotting, and insulting other countries.

As recently mentioned by Larry Goldstein, president of Petroleum Industry Research Foundation: “ Our relative importance in the global markets is diminishing. An American economic slowdown, won’t have a visible impact on high oil demand and it won’t have a visible impact on high oil prices.”

The American companies and the United States risk to be ignored and/or eliminated as business partners in the future economy of the Real World. In the last few months, we have noticed the following:

* several Europeans countries are planning to withdraw, and/or, diminish their financial contributions to World Bank
* many European groups that staged high-profile share listings on Wall Street in the 1990s are now slipping out the back door, using the cost and restrictions as an excuse.
* the sharp decline of our dollar (more than 65% in the last five years) creates new problems for many international companies and financial institutions.

* there is a growing possibility that the US dollar will not, anymore, remain the basic currency for the international community.
* another report warned that China, India and other developing economies needed to protect themselves against the possibility of a sharp slowdown in the United States.

OPEC is thinking to use the Euro dollar. European Community has already started to compare the Euro with a basket of currencies, as well as China. International companies are looking at a different option than to show their earnings in US dollars.

One of the main reasons to leave New York Stock Exchange, is to escape scrutiny by SEC, especially since 2002 (Sarbanes-Oxley Act). Another reason concerns the accumulation of threats by the White House and narrow-minded Congress, in their attempts to freeze assets of companies dealing in Iran.

This short-sighted and childish approach will simply act as a boomerang. Cuba, Vietnam, Palestine are only a few examples that boycotting and threats are just playing against our own future interest.

The financial accounting scandals at Enron, Worldcom, etc. did not contribute to our international reputation and credibility. Non-competent regulators were too late for establishing a good corporate governance. Still, we have an irresponsible Senate and Congress keeping in place Executives at Fannie Mae who mismanaged $11 billion.

This is not the right way to convince the international community. If we are serious, and want to show the world that we mean business, one way to regain the trust will be to fire the existing Executive Team at Fannie Mae, as a first example.

How can we trust Executives involved in conflict of interest, who cheat their shareholders. and who have no qualms in abusing the good faith of citizens.

It is discouraging to see that certain politicians dare to expand the portfolio of Fannie Mae, after such a fiasco in the last few years. Not surprising that we lost our credibility and trust with the real world. No ethics, no moral, no competence. And we keep them in place.

The European Commission is closely following the developments in our financial markets, especially in the housing sector. They are expecting concrete and positive results.

Surprising that no one is listening to (or understanding) the Federal Reserve Chairman, Ben Bernanke, who recently said that relaxing the portfolio restrictions on Fannie Mae and Freddie-Mac could prove “ill-advised”.

Are they all that stupid in the Senate and Congress, that they can not even remember the chaos of subprime mortgages? The best way for Fannie Mae to regain trust, will be to get rid of the present regime But with a spineless Congress, we can not expect too much.

Let’s show the world that we are serious. Let’s start with a few examples. More than time to clean our House, and fire those who have no ethics, no moral, no competence, if we want to restore our credibility and prestige.

(part 2, on Monday)

The Facilitator

Canada: axis of evil (2)

Following our article "Canada: axis of evil", published on September 27, we have received several comments from United States, United Kingdom and Canada.

England (The Telegraph):

I like Canada. It's like America, but with class.
oldmovieguy 28 Sep 2007 16:20

The Wise One 28 Sep 2007 17:03
That's unfair. If you go to New England, you,ll find plenty of "class" and culture.Canadians tend to dress down when going out somewhere special.Not my idea of class.

Brendano 28 Sep 2007 17:10
Very good block... and a refreshing change from the usual hardline Republican stuff that appears on this site.Regarding the 'third option' - isn't there a danger of taking votes from the Democrats and ending up with another Republican president? (I realize you're speaking in a broader sense than presidential elections alone.)

David 28 Sep 2007 17:23
There are more adults.......... in Canada than America but they do have appalling dress sense.

James Wolfe 28 Sep 2007 18:07
Rubbish. Canadians do not have appalling dress sense.They do not have any dress sense.

David 28 Sep 2007 18:11
I beg your pardon. You so right. However, they are the most laid back people in the world.

pigswill 28 Sep 2007 18:25
An excellent blog. Now can you give us your views on our Labour MPs?

James Wolfe 28 Sep 2007 18:45
David. They are laid back because most of them are on something. I'm watching a deal going down now, just across the road, and both parties are on welfare!(Sorry, Liaison, not hi-jacking you - I'll get to the point in a moment).The majority of Canadians seem to want cannabis legalised. I once would have thrown my hands up at the idea, but I now support it: The price will come down, the tax revenue will be equivalent to the GDP of Belgium and the 5000 wasters growing it at home in this valley of 100,000 will all have to get a job.However, when it is legalised, the US will go ballistic and then all 100 senators will form a queue to have a bloody great fence built from Prince Edward Island to Vancouver Island. Should be fun!

Christopher in California 28 Sep 2007 20:01
Groan. Drivel, drivel, and more drivel. I'm not thrilled with the US government either but I don't go off writing self-loving blogs.

pigswill 29 Sep 2007 17:22
Chris in Cal. Where did the self-loving blog come in? Well as long as you are not thrilled with the US government, that will do for now I suppose. Just in passing, I detest the UK government

Ben Moss 29 Sep 2007 17:48
I don't have too strong An opinion of the U.S Government (They are not mine, and I don't know them well enough for sure).I wonder at you seeing "the whole world laughing at the U.S" Really?You may well be right. But I'd rather have yours than ours though any day. At least yours give a shit for the country they represent.

Canada (Globe & Mail):

* You (A Better Canada, from No-Quebec, Canada) wrote: Canada: axis of evil. All Canadians should visit: the-liaison.blogspot.comand see the stupidity, ignorance, arrogance of the American politicians.Please, tell poodle 2 and naive Peter to read it too....if they ever understand something.

* evelyn robinson from Canada writes: 20 million illegal immigrants mainly through the Mexico border is why the USA needs more border guards there.Worry more about those who are allowed legally into the USA on visas as were those who made the attack on the world trade building.Worry about mentally damaged military personnel coming back from these invasion of the USA; will another Timothy MVeigh be amongst them.Quit pointing towards Canada as your big problem.Stop the dictatorial aggression against other countries and there will be less interest in new recruits joining terrorist/ freedom fighter groups.Rebuild the UN and pay your dues; an international organization has more credibility and less chance of decisions to be regarded as racist or controlling for American interests.
Posted 29/09/07 at

United Sates:

By proamerica Sep 28th 2007 at 11:18 am EDT
Five stars...I hope people read this post too...

By Percy H Florez Sep 28th 2007 at 11:54 am EDT
To the facilitator and proamerica. You both have right, all of this you wrote is right and true. nothing new I am really tired to post the same every single day and few can understand the message.I hope this time people can made a good reflexion and clean up all the mess in Washington with the POWER OF THE VOTE.You can read in my blog my black list, wish nothing Else than the list of all of these fake politician.But something is missing!You fail to identify yourself!Percy H Florez

Reply
By Foreign Affairs Consultant Sep 28th 2007 at 2:53 pm EDT
Thanks Percy. What can be done to clean Washington? Several options are avaiable. We can not rely upon the spineless Democrats, but a few. We should force our Senators and Congress members to stop insulting and boycotting the whole world.We could encourage politicians and media people to boycott the White House. They are just laughing at us, and insulting our intelligence.We could organize groups to walk and sit in front of the White House, Pentagon, Capitol Hill, etc, and show the real world that Americans are not behind the irresponsible politicians who, unfortunately, represent us.We should make sure that a great majority of Senators and members of Congress are not re-elected.We should make sure that they understand that they are working for us, and they are supposed to work in the interest of the many, not the few.We could boycott all lobbyists in Washington.So many things can be done, but so few volunteers....till we get to the point of a revolution, if nothing is seriously done, in the very near future.We can not take it, anymore, should be the voice and rally of Real Americans, as we used to be, as the World has known us...before.You surely understand the importance of not revealing the name...for the time being. Are we still in a free country? Read Gary "How Free are We?"

Reply to Five:
By Foreign Affairs Consultant Sep 28th 2007 at 2:30 pm EDT
Thanks. There are a majority like us, unfortunately, they are silent. For the real world, a silence is an acquiescence, and this is how we are judged, now, and how our own children will judge us, later. Sixty-five years ago, we were asking: "how is it possible that Germans do not do anything?"

*Thank you for your very astute comments. So far I have found very few people who are willing to say anything negative about Israel. Forget about all the hand-wringing and guilt over the holocaust, what has Israel done since then? They have occupied lands that do Not belong to them, used a helicopter gunship to blow away a family enjoying a day at the beach, started a preemptive war with Lebanon, bombed Iran, the list goes on. and I haven't even gotten to all the politicians in the U.S. that they have bought and paid for. Check that out on the link below if you think I am wrong.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.asp
The U.S. has lost so much of its standing in the world thanks to GW and our blind support for all things Israeli that it's no wonder we can't get anywhere with treaty negotiations or at the U.N.
Real debate is what makes life worth living.
by Disgusted Independent on 9/28/2007 at 12:17 PM CST

* Senate is badly in need of more grownups . Elect more Democrats!
Oh, and someday, with global warming, the Canadians will be the ones who want to erect a fence on our border. Oklahoma Voter
by OklahomaVoter on 9/28/2007 at 2:41 PM CST

* Thank You, Also
You have said much that needs to be said, somewhere, hopefully, here. One point I have to disagree. You wrote: "Of course, to dissimulate our incompetence, we blame others. Senator Clinton blamed Canada for the entrance of the 19 hijackers in 9/11. It was easier to impress Americans, while ignoring that the terrorists, sponsored by our friends in Saudi Arabia, were in Florida for months before. We blame Iran for our fiasco in Iraq. We blame Chavez for a series of left-leaning governments in Latin America, although they were elected by a majority (with all the votes counted as it should be in a real democracy). We blame Palestine for the problem in Lebanon. We blame North Korea for exporting nuclear weapon expertise, but we forget to blame Pakistan. We blame Syria for anything else."
But, joining the "Blame Game" for a minute, the real culprit, I believe, is the Propaganda machine in Madison Avenue, a propaganda machine that would make Joseph Goebbels proud. But, instead of blaming the messanger, our focus on any problem ends, like in totally removed from memory, when blame is assigned. We bother more in blaming Pres. Bush and his Hairless One than in helping Katrina victims. We blame Pres. Bush for not helping repair the bridge than in asking for help for the victims and the bridge.
It is a pattern we follow very often, why? Could it be because we are conditioned by The Master Propaganda Machine that is salivating for the Two Billions they will take to dictate who should be our next president? Don't believe it? Look at all Swift Boats did with a few million? Imagine, what they will do with Billions?
Antidote: Think and ignore Sound Bytes. Ignore accusations, they are all probably false, focus on the facts and make your conclusions. Our Master manipulators use emotions like fear, sample Sound Byte: "if we don't fight them there, we'll have to fight them here!"
Those that want to guide our thinking will dominate us, like the dog trained by Dr. Pavlov. Note, while we still can think independently, if they train us to respond to bells, whistles or sound bytes, our humanity is at risk. Many of our worst enemies are trained like that.
by MikeSar (mchlsrrb@aol.com, Unbounded Education)on 9/28/2007 at 6:05 PM CST

* What should we do? I do agree with you, Mike Star. Blame game was the motto of the White House to justify their incompetence at Katrina. The blame game is still their motto to justify their fiasco in foreign policy. First, we must recognize the problem. Now, we know the problem is not only at the White House but also at the Congress, at the Senate, and with Democrats who have no stomack, no courage, to stand up, and fight for the many.Goebbels will not be proud,he would be jealous. Again, what should we do? We are not in a democracy anymore. We are at the mercy of billions in the advertising and lobbying machines.Do we need a revolution, or a third option, or both? Do not forget that we still have a 50% gullible people, and 30% who are glued to each party, whatever the stupidity each of them promote.

The Facilitator.